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OK so this isn't mine (a friend sent it to me).. I will admit I haven't even checked the references but I'm assuming they're right. To be honest I was too busy wetting myself laughing ... hilarious (apologies if you've read this before elsewhere butit tickled my fancy)
Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality, who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. She recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination, according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
"... and they'll know we are Christians by our hate by our hate and they'll know we are Christians by our..." ...
that's how the song goes isn't it? Not exactly as I remember it but sometimes I think maybe more appropriate. I'm feeling sad today. I keep reading things that make me weep... I feel I could easily write a dozen pages on this one but I'll try and be brief... here's s few that have made me cry for the 'lost church that is' this week lone:
1. Let me start with Fred Phelps... I know I know he's an easy target and part of the 'extreme US fundamentalists' but it's a voice that some at least partially agree with and deserves a brief mention. If you don't know of Fred then please google him but don't spend too much time reading his messages of hate or some may brush off. Apparently according to Fred 'God hates Gays'... also 'God hates America' and ironically 'God hates Jews' (what the?) They regularly picket schools etc. to show people how much god hates them. I have so much to say on Fred but in the end I weep for him... he doesn't know the love and grace of god.
2. Fred Niles... OK so he's no Phelps thankfully (what is it with people called Fred?) but he's scary enough and it's a small step from where he is. Fundamentally (sic) he's opposed to climate control (and any form of environmentalism... I thought God was kind of fond of the environment), immigration of Muslims into Australia, Gay and Lesbians (yes I know it's one of my bugbears...get over it). He also believes in the outright freedom of enterprise. ('God helps those who help themselves' apparently... sheesh silly me! I thought God helped those who couldn't help themselves...ummm.. that's all of us). We cannot let such a misinterpretation of god filter into our culture or our politics...Tony Abbot and Family First also scare me for similar reasons.
3. Corrective rape of lesbians (particularly in South Africa): I'm not sure if you've heard of this but my blood boils with anger and my heart weeps with grief. I will not be flippant here. There are groups mainly within South Africa and Zimbabwe (Uganda proposes a 'Kill the gays' bill) who are condoning (claiming religious morality) the brutal beating and rape of lesbians to make them real women. This practice is spreading and is a foul and brutal abomination of mankind. I don't know what to say here... I'm so upset by it. Love your neighbour as yourself please peoples...
OK I'd planned to say more but that will do for now. That last one just destroys me. These are extreme examples but so much of this is in god's name and supported by large factions of the church (particularly in the conservative right in the US). It's not that big a leap for other evangelical groups to follow suit at least in part. As for what would Jesus say.... Hmmm..
Jesus was highly outspoken at the Jewish church and particularly the Pharisees and Sadducees of his time. The Pharisees were (similar to Phelps and Nile) of the belief that God had not 'redeemed' the Jewish people from slavery because of their sin and so they were intensely focussed on morality as a way to 'salvation'. (Salvation in this context meaning freedom for the Jewish people)
Ironic that it is clear in the NT that Jesus didn't come in the world to judge it... he came to "SAVE" it... morality won;t save us... only love and grace. No-one... not one of us stands untouched without that grace. Jesus didn't share a message of hate in any form. He constantly showed love, mercy and grace to even the 'untouchables' (in the eyes of the Pharisees) ... no-one was untouchable for Jesus... in fact they were often his focus (and I would argue the focus of much of the OT too) prostitute, tax collector, 'bleeding' woman, Samaritan woman, lepers, blind, dead... you name them and he reached out to them. Yes he even touches us... shame that Phelps and co. are yet to truly experience the heart felt touch of God's love and grace.
What are you going to do? How will you demonstrate love to your neighbour... who will you reach out to...especially the 'untouchables' ? We must fight this hatred this abominable representation of god with love and ensure our hearts and our churches NEVER preach this message of hate. For a start please rethink your approach to the church's treatment of the GLBT community.
Crying and praying... Scott
Hi all... after some feedback I have decided to post this post which I had originally planned for down the track. Note I’m still on the ‘Church approach to the GLBT community’ topic but there’s lots of other topics planned. If you’re one of those who thinks gay people are the spawn of Satan and beyond love then I suggest you move on and come back later … ☺
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard the line “love the sinner, hate the sin” when the topic of homosexuality comes up I’d be a rich man (or at least have enough to pay my bills). It seems to be an ‘easy’ response to the situation but one that irks me considerably. I recently came upon this quote from another blog that I found hits the target:
‘I don’t think they could begin to understand how “love the sinner, hate the sin” doesn’t cut it with this community. It’s like saying, sure, we don’t mind dogs, we love dogs — but leave that mongrel outside. All anyone hears is “hate the sinner with this sin.” It’s getting pretty old. I’m not saying that they have to change their theological stance, but… don’t they have to at least be gracious?’ (http://subversiveinfluence.com/2006/01/the-church-the-activists-and-the-homosexual-question/)
This statement is so intrinsically flawed particularly in its application to homosexuality that it deserves some treatment. So in good ‘sermon’ mode here’s 3 simple points to get us thinking. (else this will end up being a very long post).
1. Why just homosexuality? I’ve never heard this line used in any other discussion except when addressing the ‘issue’ of homosexuality in the church. Why is it so? I’m perplexed how some ‘sin’ gets the ‘steroid’ treatment and others we happily overlook everyday. Maybe the statement would irk me less if it was used for all of us. Eg: for our brother who lives in a multi-million dollar mansion when millions starve each day… Yes brother I love you but I hate your sin... the sister who is obsessed with her self image and spends hours and half her income on fashion and makeup… Yes sister I love you but I hate your sin… or maybe the church in general who focus generally 90%+ of their budget on their building, staff and sound systems… Yes brothers and sisters I love you but I hate your sin. I could go on and on … but we don’t do that though do we? … it’s as if the only sin God cares about are those of the GLBT community.
2. It puts the speaker on a pedestal. (putting on my pious voice here) ‘Oh yes I can bring myself to love you sinner but I hate your sin’ aaarrrgh Jesus must be cringing… News flash: we all sin !! Don’t forget your origins! ‘For all have sinned’… ‘forgive as you have been forgiven’… ‘do not look at the splinter in your brothers eye when you have a log in your own.’ Jesus was very specific in his teaching on this. IMHO most of the western church has a massive log in it’s eye… never forget to forgive as you yourself have been forgiven… we don’t want to be unmerciful servants now do we? Some of the most loving gracious and giving people I know happen to be gay and Christian… so why are they so targeted.
3. Irrepairable damage. Finally… the damage done by the church toward the homosexual community is so great the divide has become unfathomable. How does this statement help the church to bring us closer to a point where we see each other as sinful equals who need the love and grace of God whether we’re gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender (GLBT), materialist, fornicator, luster, obese, self obsessed, selfish, liar, murderer, tax evader blah blah blah…
I believe the church needs to find a new paradigm and one that fits my previous post of the GLBT community as our neighbours. So what is my plea for a new paradigm for the church and the GLBT community? … Wait for it … it may take some time to digest…it’s pretty complex…
LOVE!!
Forget the rest of the phrase just try sticking with the first word… that’s it… simple isn’t it… LOVE!!! It’s hard to do, especially if you’re burdened with your own historical and cultural prejudice but it’s what we’re meant to do and what we’re meant to be known by… hmmm epic fail to date …
So when you’re next thinking about this one… just use the first word… LOVE!!!
Cheers all… Scott
PS – Note I have deliberately steered clear in this post of the varying discussions around whether homosexuality is a sin or not. If you read my ‘What about me?’ post I have already declared my ‘liberal’ stance on that... but for this post I’m assuming the evangelical position that it is sinful and despite that stance the paradigm needs urgent attention.
A minister was walking through the city on his way home when a gang attacked him. They kicked and beat him, stole his wallet, watch and even his clothes. They left him dying and bleeding on the road… they had taken everything.
A local priest walked near and, seeing the dying man, quickly crossed to the other side of the road …after all he was due at the church soon to run confession.
A lay Pentecostal minister upon seeing the man did the same thing… offering a quick prayer to appease his conscience as he crossed on the other side. God would understand...he was a busy man with a large ministry team to look after.
Next came a local gay activist. Only two weeks before he’d been denied communion by the very minister lying before him. He went to him, stopped the bleeding with his shirt and took off his coat to keep the dying man warm. He picked him up, put him in his car despite the fresh blood soaking the car seats and drove him to the nearest hospital where he stayed with him during the night.
The next day he gave the hospital staff $300 to give to the man for new clothes giving them his credit card details in case he needed more.
So who was a neighbour to the bashed minister?
OK so we’ve all heard this story before in a slightly different version. Then it was the ‘despised’ Samaritan who got voted in as best neighbour… this new version isn’t really all that shocking… is it? so what am I trying to say? What was Jesus trying to say?
I’ve often wondered who the modern day equivalents are to some of Jesus’ parables. A number of years ago I read a book called ‘One Blood’ about the history of mission to the Australian aboriginals (which the church really stuffed up in its arrogance) and 100 years ago I’d have suggested sub’ing the indigenous for the Samaritans. They were despised, seen as ‘evil’ lesser human beings and terribly mistreated…much like the modern gay/lesbian by the church (and ‘redneck’ society in general).
The context for Jesus parable was teaching around the greatest commandment… “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind; and love your neighbour as yourself.” This was “more important than all burnt offerings or sacrifices”… or to translate to modern times more important than church buildings, services, music, PA’s, communion, bible studies etc.
LOVE LOVE LOVE ...EVERYONE EVERYONE EVERYONE… AS YOURSELF AS YOURSELF AS YOURSELF. MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOING CHURCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOING CHURCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN DOING CHURCH
My point is IMHO our modern western evangelical churches, and yes most of those in them, have lost the ‘heart’, the ‘love’, the ‘grace’ to all people, all of creation, all of the time. Instead they're busy focussed on buildings, awesome music, services, attendances, key success criteria, baptisms etc. Yet the very heart of the matter is what it’s all about…
When was the last time you donated to AIDS care, attended a gay/lesbian rally to show your support for those who are alienated from our society or even allowed yourself to see the gay community as your neighbour? Have you ever listened to a gay friend's story or supported the campain against the 'corrective' rape of lesbian women by religious zealots in South Africa? What's got your priority? Love God and love your neighbour as yourself… simple really!
Cheers again Scott :)
